Category: book Nook
Hey everyone. I've got a question for any harry potter fan who can answer this. Throughout the hole seventh book, everyone is desperately trying to keep harry safe from voldemort right? But why do they bother? I mean, the only people who knew that harry was hunting hore cruxes were Ron and Hermione right? So what was in it for everyone else who tried protecting him? I mean think about it, if you really look at harry's magic throughout the hole series, he's a pretty stupid wizard. He's only as good as ron at casting spells except for maybe defense against the dark arts. I mean, we all know hermione beats him by a long shot at magic, so what is in it for the rest of the wizarding world to save harry potter if nobody but ron and hermione know that he's hunting hore cruxes?
Well, in most of the 7th book, although the wizarding world (minus the Ministry and Deatheaters) outwardly support Harry Potter, no one besides Ron and Hermione, and maybe the Order to some degree, is actively trying to protect him. They don't even know where he is, if he's still alive for sure, and what he's doing. There are a fair amount of the wizarding world who are out to get him, or who are just simply doubting him because of all the propaganda against him from the Ministry through the Daily Profit. But for those who do support him -- Well, I think the Order supports him because Dumbledore did, and they have to trust Dumbledore, who told them to trust Harry. Also, Harry's parents were such a large part of the resistance last time that I think it would have dishonored their memories if the Order didn't support Harry; that goes for honoring Sirius's memory, too. Then, for the rest of the people who support him, I think it comes down to the fact that he's a symbol to them, a symbol against Voldemort and the dark arts in general. He was the only person to have ever survived the killing curse, the only one who Voldemort was unable to harm. Yeah, his skills might be average, but his courage and story are certainly admirable, at least to many of his supporters I would think. He did do a lot, especially at Hogwarts - fighting Quirrell over the sorcerer's stone, defeating the basalysk (spelling?) in Chamber of Secrets, the whole tri-wizard tournament, and of course he's a star athlete haha, so he had a lot of admirers from school too. And when you take into account all of them, plus their families, I mean there was a lot to admire, I think. So he was a rallying point. That's why the Ministry originally wanted him on their side, until Thickness took over.
The other bit of it is just that everyone knows the one thing Voldemort wants in that final battle is Harry, dead. And since pretty much everyone defies Voldemort, I think they realize that they need Harry, or else that there is a very good reason why Voldemort wants him dead, meaning they should keep him alive. I don't know if that makes sense. But Harry never physically did anything to make anyone dislike him. The only crap anyone had on him was the propaganda from the Ministry, which could not be trusted. So if people really stopped to think about Harry Potter, the boy who lived, I think they knew he was genuinely good and true. So they didn't want Voldemort to win. Plus all those rumors about him being the chosen one from the 6th book - I think a lot of people truly believed that, so on the off chance that Harry was the chosen one to destroy Voldemort, they didn't want to screw that up either.
Yeah, lol Sarah said everything perfectly.
Agreed. Besides they'd already seen what life under Voldemort's rule was like.
ya Harry didn't have magic like hermione but Harry didn't exactly swallow the text books like hermione either. I think wair Harry really excelled is when he was teaching the classes to his fellow students
does anyone think that dudly has any qwalldies that were good? I mean i know he was real mean to Harry but i think what he said in the seventh book was nice.
I think he was a product of a bad environment. Who knows, he could have easily turned out differently had he been raised by less cruel, not to mention stupid, parents. They certainly weren't cruel to him, at least he didn't think so. But actually, they kind of were, if you think about it. Spoiling a kid that much is bound to have dire consequences for them in their adult life. but their blatant cruelty toward harry rubbed off on him.
But actual good qualities? I don't think so. Hell, even your worst enemy would be grateful that you saved them from getting their soul sucked out of their body.
That reminds me. Why wasn't it ever expanded on in the books what it would be like to suffer the dementor's kiss? I mean, obviously it would have been a horrible thing, but having a description from a prisoner as it was happening to them would have been a nice touch. Creepy, sure, but not any more so than the unwinding process explained in the book Unwind. That literally gave me chills reading it, and I think that, especially as dark as the seventh book was, that should have been included.
I really don't think they could describe the Dementor's Kiss simply because there'd be no person left to describe it.
yes, but the person could describe it as it was happening to them. I imagine it as an awareness of suddenly being flooded with a cold emptiness, but far off, as if it were happening to someone else. And by the time you grasped the horror of what was happening to you, it would be too late to feel.
And what happens to the souls once the dementors have sucked them out? Do the dementors simply digest them as a form of sustenance? Where do they go? I would actually think it would be a painful process for the dementor, because if they had to feel the memories, experiences, and emotions that were attached to that person's soul, wouldn't the dementor then have to experience something very close to what it would feel like to be struck by a Patronus? Would the dementor be useless once it's harvested one soul? is that why there are so many, even though there would probably only have to be a few to keep Azkaban at bay, what with the imprisoned wizards not having wands, and their powers of magic being drained by the constant hopelessness the dementors bring about? It seems like hundreds, maybe even thousands, of dementors in an enclosed space like that would be overkill, especially when you consider the fact that witches and wizards only form a small subset of the British population. How many could there really be in Azkaban?
And what is a dementor's personality really like? Are they mindless beasts who are only driven by a desire to feed, not knowing what they're doing? Or do they take pleasure in the torture of other creatures? Since Voldemort easily took control of them, was this simply because their nature was evil, or at the very least, stupid, or could they be programmed to be something else? As in, something that didn't destroy human beings?
Personally, I believe that the dementors were the most tragically underdeveloped villains in the series. I mean, the third book centers around harry's struggle to fight them off. Wouldn't it have made sense to give some backstory about the dementors at that point?
There is a lot to say about all the personalities in harry Potter. They are lively and memorable and their actions usually make a lot of sense. For the world of Harry Potter however it must be said that it is definitely not the best developed fantasy world there is. There is a lot of things that really don't add up such as the fact that everyone seems to work for the ministry except for the teacher's and a few others and a lot of other stuff that doesn't quite add up to the laws of a normal distribution. That is, there isn't a lot of world building going on appart from what is nececery for the story to go on. There at least is a lot of stuff left for Rowling to work with and expand on the Harry Potter universe and I hope she will.
I would speculate that the reason so many people work for the ministry is because they seem not to venture into the Muggle world much, and are, in fact, extremely awkward and conspicuous when they do interact with Muggles.
This leads me to speculate further that the reason there is so much pureblood supremacy is that wizards don't even bother to try to fit in with Muggles. In fact, it's implied that people think Arthur Weasley is crazy because he's fascinated by Muggles. And let's not forget the fact that merope Gaunt actually gave love potions to tom Riddle so that he would love her as she was.
But witches and wizards can be produced by Muggles, so you have to wonder why. you also have to wonder what the Muggle parents think of their magical offspring. Besides the Dursleys, this is another thing that's sadly overlooked. Hermione's parents seem proud of their daughter, but we get little, if any, interaction with them, so we have no idea how they feel about magic or anything.
So, yes, you're right, a whole ton of stuff could have been better developed in the HP universe. But then again, that's what this series lends itself so well to fanfiction. While I like reading a good fanfiction as much as the next person, sometimes I wish there were a lot more official answers than there are.
Yeah. JK Rowling apparently said something a few years back about possibly writing an HP encyclopedia to flesh out some of this stuff but if and when she will is anyone's guess.
Well, I hope she does. It would put a new spin on things for sure.
I hope so too. it would/should be quite informative, if she chooses to take up writing one.
I've even heard rumors of a new Potter novel, though I can't say how much truth there is to that. I personally didn't think the serieswas really open to expansion
Not after that travesty of an epilogue, no. it was quite clear what she wanted us to take away from the ending of the series.
For people interested in the dementors in more detail, this fanfic deals with them extensively:
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/7539141/1/Incorruptible-The-Dementor-s-Stigma
I thought that it was pretty good and it does deal with where those eaten souls go. Ignoring the fact that there are zombies everywhere, the "what happens when your soul's eaten?" theory isn't in conflict with what we know from canon as far as I can tell.
Cool, thanks for that.
I actually quite liked the epilogue. It showed that Harry finally got the loving family he should have had all along.
Not really. It's trite and sickly sweet. After so much death and destruction, the abrupt and complete 180, from that last scene in Dumbledore's office, where Harry is realizing that he has to live with all his choices, and his losses, to...well, like I said, that travesty, it just feels really forced. Not only that, but I really don't think a person who has seen so much trauma at such an early age can just live happily ever after like that. A passing mention of Harry at least going through some kind of therapy to face his demons would have been a nice touch, and would have made it more realistic.
I realize that, in many ways, the wizarding world is old-fashioned. But they had memory charms, the wizards or witches who created them must have had some knowledge of psychology for those to have come about.
What about all the people who were under the Imperius curse? Did they really just go back to having normal, peaceful lives, even after being forced to do Voldemort's terrible bidding? I really, really doubt it. That doesn't happen in any universe I know of, anyway. The Imperius is similar to cult programming, and, having actually spoken to people who were terrorized by cults, I can say with certainty that it's not just something you forget and get over.
I don't buy the whole, "it's a fantasy universe, so of course there will be inconsistencies" thing either. Of course there will be, but there was no excuse for that particular oversight, if you can even call it that, in my opinion.
Green turtle, I would love to sit down with you and a couple brews and talk HP. No, seriously, this dialog is awesome.
I'd have to think on the dementors in order to come up with my thoughts on them as far as where souls go, why there are so many, and how they react to swallowing a soul. My quick hypothesis is that they wouldn't feel pain when ingesting a human soul because that sorrow is what keeps them going, and unfortunately humans are pretty sorrowful beings. That's why so many struggle with conjuring patronuses, because it's so much easier to feel hopelessness than hopefulness. So perhaps taking in a soul is how they reproduce? Because remember in book 6 when they talked about the fog, which meant dementors were reproducing? Well how in the world do they go about mating? I imagine they don't actually mate with one another, but rather somehow the process of taking in a soul induces some kind of reproduction.
Yeah there are a lot of "oversights" for sure, but that's why I like it so much, even now as an "adult." There's obviously still so much to talk about and speculate. I don't think she should have to fill in all the gaps. The plot itself is filled in enough, so it's just the finer points, like how the wizarding and muggle worlds coexist, or how muggleborns come to be, or how wizarding economics function, that we can ponder and debate over. That's the fun of the series, in my opinion. It doesn't just end with one read of the 7 books; it continues with speculation, and something new can be discovered with each reread.
Hey, I'd take you up on that offer. That would be fun.
Your theory on the dementors is actually something I hadn't even considered, but it makes sense. How creepy that would be! A dementor reproducing another dementor, with characteristics of the human soul it ate. Damn, that is the stuff of nightmares, but what a fascinating thought, nonetheless.
Yeah, I actually came up with that while typing. Quite terrifying to consider, but kinda fascinating too. Harry Potter is wonderful!
The Harry Potter series is like a portal or window that gives us a glimpse of a totally different world. I am sure that there are many aspects of the wizarding world that wasn't mentioned in the books. That's probably why there are so much HP fanfictions around and some of them does give us a broader view but they are not the official thing. It will definitely be nice if we could learn more about the wizarding world.
The Harry Potter series is like a portal or window that gives us a glimpse of a totally different world. I am sure that there are many aspects of the wizarding world that wasn't mentioned in the books. That's probably why there are so much HP fanfictions around and some of them does give us a broader view but they are not the official thing. It will definitely be nice if we could learn more about the wizarding world.
Harry certainly is not the brightest, not very bright at all. He tends to be skilled at practical matters, as Remus Lupin rightly points out, his flying and defense against the dark art/Auror skills are quite excellent. There are many different reasons that characters wish to protect him, a large part of it was that he was a treasure to them, their last hope. He certainly was a figure to save and keep safe. For other motives , you would need to analyze each character and their personalities and motives.
As to the question of Dudley Dursley. He seems rather practical. I think he's a kind and moral individual at heart, but influenced and misguided by his parents. I do not believe the dursley's were terrible people, as I do not think many in this world are truly evil people. Perhaps, Vernon Dursley was a bit rigid and stiff. I think he definitely mishandled the situations in which Harry was involved.
The demonstrating of the dementor's kiss would hardly be relevant to the main point of the book. Neither are the Muggles reactions to the wizzarding world. I am certain there are substancially more wizards than portrayed along with many other types of work. Not everyone worked for the ministry, as there were minor characters in the books who were business owners and the employees of these business owners. As a writer, you should not spread yourself too thinly. I know this, myself as a writer. It is necessary to focus on a main point or set of plot points. In this fashion, you are able to create a rather coherent account and at the same time, not have overwhelming amounts details and things in the books to handle.
As I understood it, dementors are much more to machines than creatures. They possess little to no feelings and souls are their source of food. the emotions, especially happiness are there energy. It does not express itself any other way. Furthermore, the wizard who have no souls are not able to think,. It seems as if sucking the soul out is equivalent to sucking out the mind.
A lot of detailed has to be inferred in Harry Pottter.For instance we know most wizards do not interact with muggles nor understand muggle currency, thus we are able to gather that wizards has their own supermakets, as most wizards has food in there kitchens and no wizards are able to magically create food.
Well, as to your points about souls, and what the dementors want with them, I suppose it really comes down to what you believe about souls.
You seem to be saying that a soul holds the brainpower of the individual, rather than the emotions and experiences that person had, which is what I personally believe the purpose of a soul is.
But, going by your logic, why is the person alive at all after a dementor's kiss? What purpose would the person serve after having all their intelligence taken away from them? Essentially, they would be a vegetable. And, honestly, I don't know how much the wizarding world would accept someone in that type of state.
As to your points about the demonstration of the dementor's kiss being irrelevant, I strongly disagree. The sixth book focuses heavily on Voldemort's childhood, and other events that were important in the shaping of his character. In the third book, Harry had to figure out why the dementors affected him so much more than other people. Are you honestly saying that, in that context, some detail to flesh out who and what the dementors were would be irrelevant? I think not.
If Harry had known what, exactly, he was up against, he might have been able to formulate a defense. But I will agree with you in the sense that he seems to barely scrape through situations, and people love him for it anyway. Now, he hated this, but he never had any extraordinary powers to back him up, either.
Just being the boy who lived was enough to make people become enamored with him, or, alternatively, hate him with a passion. But let's not forget that, without his friends, he most certainly would have caved under that pressure.
I inferred this soul idea from the book. Do you not Remember dementors being explained? You would be worse then dead and that people who have had the soul sucked out would be in no condition to inform us. I think Remus Lupin stated both of these claims. If they are in some conditions to claim something than that would signify intelligence. It's intelligence, emotions, and experiences. When someone's soul is absent, then the self would be no longer in existence, thus in no condition to inform us/worse than dead.
Dementors was at some length explained, however, not all in a single explanation. To be in the POV of someone who has their soul sucked out is rather distracting, and would not be relevant enough to be a decent addition.
I somehow doubt Harry would have the patience to examine the situation or understand it better. He had little patience for much of the advice or cautionary words spoken to him when it came to his adventures. I happen to have known a girl as a teenager with the same type of personality and temperament. She had little patience for similar matters and had no patience when I attempted to explain situations in which she was involving herself in.
I think you misunderstand me.
I'm not saying that an entire book would have to focus on the dementors and who and what they are. Of course, this would fascinate me on a personal level, but you're correct, it wouldn't necessarily contribute to the greater story arc.
However, I'm convinced that someone, somewhere, in the wizarding world had a loved one who had suffered the kiss. You mean to tell me that a passing mention couldn't have been made, explaining about how a witch or wizard had looked into their loved one's eyes, and encountered a cold remoteness, or a dead stare, or what have you?
But let's say for a moment that a person whose soul was sucked out was given a Pensieve. Or, rather, that a wizard attempted to extract memories from an individual after their soul was sucked out.
We know that memories could be altered, or forced to the forefront of a person's consciousness, so why not? After all, different parts of the brain are responsible for holding different kinds of memories. And since the soul is a purely spiritual concept, that can't be scientifically connected to the brain and its biological processes, how can you be so sure that the person is void of any of their previous memories?
See, the whole worse than dead bit, I took to mean simply that the person would be unable to feel, but would still function as an automaton of sorts. They would be able to be told what to do. Their mind, their autonomic functions, specifically, and IQ, would still be intact.
I could be wrong about this, but that's how I interpreted it. And I could support this via what was already established. The entire moral, if you will, of the harry Potter series, is that love conquers all. Is that idealistic? Of course it is. But that's what J.K. Rowling wanted us to believe. Harry's mother's love was what kept him alive, what kept him hanging on through all the desperate times he endured, because, as we've already established, it sure wasn't his quick thinking or wit that saved him.
So, if we accept this to be true, we can also infer that, in Rowling's mind, living without the ability to love, or to feel at all, would be a fate worse than death. It's not as though that's something you could recover from. Once your soul is gone, it's gone.
The problem here I see is that this sceen would not be relevant, It would not fit in to the greater picture. As a writer these has to be eliminated or skillfully handled. There is no use of it in the plot, however, fascinating it may be, which is the reason that it was not included.
I desire a great many details elaborated on as well. I would wish to see how Remus chose to Parent teddy in the few weeks he was alive after tedy was born. Sadly, this would not be relevant either. I would have liked for Ginny Weasley to be more developed, and once more, this is not quite relevant. I wish that Teddy Lupin was more developed, however, this is irrelevant as well.
Hmmm, you may have a point about the relevancy of these things.
I do disagree with you about Ginny's character development, though. It would have been relevant, if only to make her either more or less likable, depending on what Rowling chose to do with her character.
If we're supposed to accept that she and our protagonist live happily ever after, which I hate for the reasons I've already described, knowing a bit more about how their relationship played out, beyond the stupidity of their children's names, would definitely have eased the bitterness of the pill we all had to swallow that was that ending.
Yes, in the case of irrelevancies is the reason for fanfictions and the supposed encyclopedia.
I do not prefer the ending for a completely different reason. She could have chosen another scene, however, I do not have any problems with how things unfolded. I can appreciate the Ginny character, I think the two personality wise would fit well, she only needed to elaborate on it and on ginny's character. If some are correct that Ginny is an extrovert, It is her extroverted side that should have been stressed. Her other traits may be fascinating to see and how she uses them.
Eh, Ginny isn't a bad character. She just doesn't contribute much beyond being obviously infatuated with Harry from day one.
I sometimes wonder how the seventh book would have played out if she had accompanied Hary, Ron, and Hermione on their hunt for horcruxes. That could have turned out really badly or really well, but it certainly would have given us a much more in-depth look at what she was like.
true that would be an rather fascinating perspective.